Introducing Nitro Coffee to a New Market and Lots of Shout Outs

In today’s episode, we’re joined by a couple New Zealanders from Crocky’s Cold Brew and we discuss some of the hurdles and challenges of bringing a new product to a new market… That product? Cold brewed nitro coffee. We have a good time chatting about how Crocky got started with cold brew and nitro coffee and where he plans to take it with those #CreamyMouthfeels

It’s a fun episode, check it out above, or subscribe and download it below.

What we mentioned on during this show

Episode 20 Transcript

Brendan Hanson: Hey there, welcome back to the Drips and Draught’s podcast. As always, I’m Brendan Hanson and I’ll be your host today. We got a fun show today. I’m joined by a couple of Kiwis; I hope they don’t mind that I called them that. I’m joined by a couple of New Zealanders, let’s put it that way, Crocky and Andy, from Crocky’s Cold Brew.

And among other things we talk about bringing a new product, or new idea to a region that’s relatively unfamiliar with it, and relatively hesitant or reluctant to try new things I guess. So it’s very interesting talking to Crocky and Andy about bringing a new product, that product being cold brew and nitro coffee into a region that is maybe slow to adopt or just kind of set in their ways.

So we talked to them a bit about their hurdles and challenges in introducing this new product to that market. So before we get into today’s interview, let me read a review from iTunes from Ranger Time. Ranger Tim says, “These guys helped us get started in nitro cold brew for our shop, and we never could have done it without them. Thanks to them we were able to pioneer something new for our region. Now with this excellent podcast, they’re continuing the great work.”

So thanks for the five star review Ranger Time, and I thought that review was kind of fitting for the interview that we have scheduled today. Obviously, you brought nitro cold brew into a region that maybe didn’t have it, and that’s exactly what Crocky and Andy are trying to do down in New Zealand.

Before we jump into the interview, I’d like to send a shout out, on behalf of Crocky and Andy, to their current coffee supplier, Emporio Coffee. Crocky and Andy got a little shout out happy on the episode and somehow forgot to mention their coffee supplier, so I told them I’ll do it for them in the intro and the outro.

So there it is guys, Emporio Coffee, thanks for supplying Crocky’s Cold Brew with the beans to make it happen. With that, let’s get into today’s episode with Crocky and Andy from Crocky’s Cold Brew in Wellington, New Zealand.

[Music]

Brendan: I almost forgot, we’ve got a couple of suggestions from listeners saying that we should have a phone number that people can call in and leave a question on a voicemail for us to play during the show, and then to discuss an answer. So we’ve finally set that up. We’ve got our 888 number, which you can call 888-620-273, or if you like dialling by letter, you can call 888-620 brew, that’s 888-620 brew.

So if you’ve got a question or comment, call us and leave us a voicemail. 888-620-2739 Extension 6. Alright, now back to Episode 20 of the Drips and Draughts podcast. Show notes of this episode can be found at dripsanddraughts.com/20.

[Music]

Brendan: Alright, welcome back to the Drips and Draught’s podcast. As always I’m Brendan Hanson and today, I’m joined by Crocky and Andy, from Crocky’s Cold Brew in New Zealand. Welcome guys, good to have you on the show.

Crocky: Thanks Brendan, cheers now. Good day, how you’re doing? I’m Crocky.

Andy: And I’m Andy, we’ll do our own introductions. [Laughs]

Brendan: I like that. Well, you guys are probably the guest from the furthest location I’ve had so far. Really, on the other side of the world pretty much, you guys just mentioned before the show that you’re in the middle of winter there, we’re in the middle of summer here. Yes, it couldn’t be further away, I don’t think.

Crocky: No, what’s the tip, where are you at LA or?—

Brendan: I am just north of LA, I’m in Ventura County so yes it’s been about low 80s for the past couple of weeks here. It’s been just perfect weather.

Crocky: Oh nuts, we’re talking Celsius, is that nine degrees Celsius? [laughs] or whatever that is in Fahrenheit, not sure.

Brendan: What? Yes was that low 40s maybe, 40s?

Crocky: Something like that. [laughs]

Brendan: You got to get a calculator out.

Andy: Not really Cold Brew with as yet.

Brendan: Yes, not yet, it gives you time to prepare though I guess.

Crocky: Absolutely and to see, to not follow the trends in the northern hemisphere as well.

Brendan: Yes, so before we get into some of the trends and how you guys got into Cold Brew, Crocky why don’t you give us a little background on yourself

Crocky: Sure, sure.

Brendan: What you do, why you started this cold brew company and then we’ll talk about Andy a bit.

Crocky: Yes, sure. So yes, basically, my background is in coffee, well a barista. Back in 2013, I went over to New York City on a graduate visa and was working at Headbands, Headbands what’s up in New York City and that was in a winter of 2012, and worked there for about eight, nine months into the summer.

We we’re using Counter Culture Coffee. The Counter Culture East Coast HQ was just down the street in Soho. Basically, it was like, summer was approaching so we got onto making iced coffee and cold brew was the method. This was a very farmed made, we have iced coffees back here but iced coffees at this time were an espresso dumped on milk, ice latte, I think you guys call them.

So cold brew was a new method, Counter Culture were great, they set us up with Toddy system, and I was just surprised at how easy was to make and how delicious it tasted. So from there after I finished up my one year stint in the States, came back to New Zealand and formulated a plan to produce cold brew using the Toddy method and selling that at the local farmer’s market in Queenstown New Zealand.

Brendan: Right on, so, cold brew obviously had a huge impact on you if you returned to New Zealand thinking that, that was going to be your business model more or less, not just cold brew.

Crocky: I just loved it. It was easy to make, and I loved the idea of bottling it, and the branding that can go on the bottle. And yes, it was just something that no one else was doing at the time, so when I got back to New Zealand, it was so early spring of that stage so I had quite a few months to prepare for it, at which stage I don’t have any Toddy filters or anything.

I was pretty much using cowboy methods with the old muslin cloth and experimenting until I tinkered around and I got it right. I used a local roaster. I got into the farmer’s market, and started playing around with that for the summer. It was fine, but still New Zealand in southern hemisphere here we get cold mornings, and was still kind of a hard push to sell because I think New Zealanders, we can be stuck in our ways.

We like hot flat whites, I mean a hot flat really. So towards the end of that summer when I was invited to a Tip X event and supplied the coffee for that, that I went with nitro cold brew.

Brendan: Okay, so actually kegged the coffee and put it on Draught?

Crocky: Yes, yes, I had some friends who worked in brewing and pubs in there and he sourced me and all getting us tap handle that had been lying under the pub for a while. And some other friends at another pub had some, you guys called a big S, is the 80-20 mix.

What you know as we know this is not, not this for the nitro, and I learned that but, so that was me peeling out of cold brew for the season, and just the once off I did the nitro and they loved it. Then went over to the United States again for three months, this time to do a bit of R&D, and then just saw how much the nitro had exploded in the northern hemisphere.

So from three months, this time round did a research and development, and I brought back that concept back to New Zealand, and that’s where I was last summer, in Wellington, New Zealand selling nitro cold brew out of the kegerator.

Brendan: Got you. So, when you came back to the US for three months was that back to New York?

Crocky: Yes back to New York.

Brendan: Alright.

Crocky: I had family and friends there. So, I was able to hook me up, and I made up with a few of the old your cold brew OGs and Grady’s cold brew there in Brooklyn, Joyride Coffee.

Brendan: Sure.

Crocky: And a few others that I was just researching and looking into at the time.

Brendan: Got you, right on. Well that’s a cool back story, that’s how Crocky’s came to be. So, how’s Andy play into all of this? Mind giving us a little back story on yourself Andy?

Andy: Yes sure, thanks Brendan. Yes, I started my career at a high school as a chef, so I did that a few years. I’ve always had a love of food, and that kind of trickles down into beverages as you know naturally. I guess we’ll fast forward a bit. I sort of worked in sales jobs in bits and pieces, and then I wanted to get back into the hospitality industry, but not in there since, but in the kitchen cooking.

So, I did a couple years in London, got a little visa over there for a couple of years and moved over. I was in London where I started to pick up on the whole cold brew thing. Again similar situation, as Crocky didn’t see it in New Zealand, didn’t know what it was until I got over to London.

I was working for a couple of cold cut companies over there. I worked for a coffee equipment supplier called Coffee Hit. Then I worked at a coffee roaster that did basically just mail order coffee called Pact, that’s quite cool. Then my last job in London I’ve worked for is actually a museum company called Karma Cola, shout out to Karma Cola. They were basically a craft soft-drink supplier set up over here.

So I helped get them off the ground. So, I was in the beverage game at that point, and yes and through Karma Cola I was visiting cafes and slinging soda. That’s where I started picking up on the whole cold brew thing. I met the boys from a company called Sandows, shoutout Sandows.

They were doing amazing bottled cold brew, and that’s sort of dead like a nitro as well. So, they started doing nitro on tap at these coffee bars called Grind in London. That’s my first try at nitro cold brew so this is the bomb. And the same as Crocky, I was like, “Man this needs to be in New Zealand.”

We’re coffee lovers, thought people will love us, as far as I know no one was doing it back here. So, after my two years in London, I came back hunting around for a job, going into coffee roasteries, and breweries, and bits and pieces trying to find myself a cool job and I ended up at Garage Project, which is both Crocky and I have been working there.

I have been there the last five months, Crocky has been there a little bit more than that. So, Garage Project is probably New Zealand’s most innovative craft brew. They’re playing around with flavours and ingredients, and doing some pretty amazing stuff but, but that’s where I met Crocky.

Brendan: Alright.

Andy: I think the first word Crocky said to me, first words I came in as customer initially and he said, “Like your watch man,” because I was wearing a really nice watch that I got in London and that’s how it started.

Crocky: It just a beautiful thing, and he suggested if he could help me out at the market, and I thought that was a nice gesture. And came through for the brew at the Harbour side market there. And then showed some enthusiasm and dropped a few names.

Then basically from my experience from the last summer it was a bit hectic. One person lifting a kegerator out of a van. Until then I didn’t actually have a van, I was borrowing Garage Project’s transit van, but I just needed another partner. So, I liked Andy’s enthusiasm and background in beverage and his interest in the coffee culture. So, yes and then we teamed up.

Andy: More of a bromance than a business partnership.

Crocky: Absolutely and we like to say bros before brews.

Andy: Bros before brews always.

Crocky: Yes and so that’s where we are right now. So, we’re currently in southern hemisphere winter, and right now we are formulating the next wave in our coffee business.

Brendan: Awesome, so you guys just kind of hit it off from the get-go it seems like —

Crocky: Yes, totally. We have similar backgrounds, age and we were both working at Garage Project. Yes, it was a little marriage, coffee marriage I don’t know.

Brendan: There you go, so before we get back, before we get into the coffee and your cold brew a little bit, Garage Project is a craft brewery in New Zealand?

Crocky: Yes, sure. So, Garage Project is just coming up now five years old. At the time there were two main corporate breweries in New Zealand that I think owned 80 or 90% of the beers that were distributed around New Zealand. So, five years ago craft brewing was in its infancy I guess.
There was no one brewing beer in the capital, Wellington where we are situated is the capital of New Zealand. No one was brewing in the capital at that time, and Garage Project seized this opportunity out of two brothers and a friend to start brewing literally in a garage, real boot strappers.

And basically it took off from there; they outgrew their garage and actually moved or garage to those American listeners, and moved into an old garage and literal an abandoned garage and then grew and grew and grew, and I think now we have growing capacity of —

Andy: 2,000 litres.

Crocky: 2,000 litres?

Andy: Yes.

Crocky: 2,000 litres but we have the [unintelligible 00:18:10] was 60,000.

Andy: Yes.

Crocky: Yes, so they currently distribute to Scandinavia, Australia and just recently broken the west coast market in North America.

Brendan: I’m going to have to start looking for this stuff.

Crocky: So, we play around with it, it’s very interesting. Of course there’s quite a bit of cross-pollination from what I do, and what they do. I work at — They just recently opened up a tap room and that’s where I work. So, we have 20 beers on tap, all Garage Project is and that brewed 50 meters just down the road.

Andy: And to give you an idea Brendan of the sort of how much well, how kind of big it is — Big and small I suppose like this brewery Garage Project have done 200 beers in five years, 200 different beers. Most crafteries will do sort of 10 and stick with those. But the boys, the brewers are so innovative that they’ll just keep cranking out new even more.

Brendan: They like experimenting?

Andy: Absolutely.

Crocky: Exactly and I guess where it’s interesting where Nitro is good, so they play around a lot with nitro, IPAs and Pale Ales, stouts and porters of course, but, yes it’s fun really pushing that whole nitro factor at the bar. Creamy–

Brendan: All right.

Crocky: #CreamyMouthFeels.

Brendan: Is that what we got to look up on Instagram to find you guys?

Andy: Of course #brosbeforebrews #CreamyMouthFeels.

Brendan: Well–

Crocky: Yes, so that’s basically the story of Garage Project, and actually in two days’ time we have a large beer festival called Beervana–

Andy: New Zealand’s biggest.

Crocky: New Zealand, I think it’s almost like make the southern hemisphere’s biggest craft beer festival. Garage Project is always the Queen B at this. And I guess it’s what drives Garage Project is its innovative approach to beers. So, we have one beer that’s fantastic, it’s called the 2 tap flat white. Me coming from pouring coffee that looks like beer they have beer that’s like coffee.

So it starts off with an imperial coffee stout base, and then a nitronated cream ale, that’s poured into a milk pitcher and then poured with like a latte, design pattern on top.

Andy: So there’s a video of that on our Instagram if you look it up.

Brendan: I am going to have to get them links from you guys to put in the show notes for this episode because that sounds different. I haven’t seen anything like that.

Crocky: So it is really cool working with this company, and they’re very supportive as well in what we do. This time we did not have to borrow a corny keg or a regulator and they’ve have always been happy to help out.

Andy: Yes, but it costed.

Crocky: Some of that, yes.

Brendan: That’s awesome. You’ve mentioned flat white a couple of times, you mind explaining what a flat white is to people who may not know or be familiar with that term?

Crocky: I’ll let Andy take the reins on this one. He did a bit of research on the flat white just the other day.

Andy: Yes, absolutely. It is one of those things, for some of our American listeners if you’re not up to speed, Kiwi’s have this friendly relationship. Friendly rivalry with Australia, so we’re not the same country, [laughs] we sit right about an ocean, we might sound the same but we’re definitely separate countries.

The flat white is one of those things is a lot of hot debate around who invented it. I think personally, there’s been a bit of research into it, that the flat white was invented in New Zealand, so basically post war museum and all sorts of European immigrant as it was across the world.

That’s where Italian espresso culture arrived in ’40s and ’50s. So I think it just developed from your traditional cappuccinos, and then the cup sizes got smaller and smaller, and then the milk became not as foamy essentially. So a flat white is an espresso with micro-foamed milk. Is that the right way Crocky? Would you say that was the right way for micro-foam? [laughs]

Crocky: Yes, micro foam is correct.

Andy: I’m not a barrister [laughs]

Brendan: [laughs]

Andy: That’s essentially the flat white. It’s kind of like a six to eight ounce cup espresso, and then the latte up with micro-foam milk.

Crocky: It is meant to be a punchy, milky espresso base drink.

Andy: Just enough milk to let the espresso shine through.

Crocky: But it’s a little bit silly really, is what [laughs] It is essentially just a small latte, with a sixy,” Flat white what’s that?” When I worked at [inaudible 00:24:01] it really took off. A New Yorker who came with this keg bone, this little groovy instant cafe run by Kiwis, with his funny accent saying,” Flat white.” It was definitely-

Andy: Flat white, no that’s more South African.

[Laughter]

Crocky: They were quite drawn to it. Basically it’s an iconic Kiwi.

Andy: I think Starbucks has recently picked up on it, and the cool interesting fact about Starbucks actually is there is only like one or two in New Zealand. I think they are closing weekly in Australia. So that gives you an idea of how strong and independent cafe industry is down here.

Brendan: That’s incredible.

Andy: We like love our coffee, and if your coffee is not good at your café, and it’s always espresso based with milk, if your coffee is not good you won’t survive in Wellington especially.

Crocky: Sorry to interrupt there, Andy.

Andy: It’s alright.

Crocky: I guess it still brings up an interesting point and what we’re saying is that we, not just New Zealand, Austral-Asia will call it Australia and New Zealand, their cafe model has being basically-

Andy: Exported.

Crocky: -exported to the likes of the UK and North America in a way. Of course UK and America have always had great cafes, I am not saying that at all but, I like to think that maybe I took something from what I learned in New York back to New Zealand.

There’s other trends too as well like the drip coffee culture, we’ve always shied away and thought it’s bad coffee, but we noticed in the maybe last 12 months.

Andy: So you mean the diner coffee, what you call it Brendan?

Brendan: Just drip coffee.

Crocky: There is good drip and then there is bad drip. These machines now like the current machine. When I was working over in those cafes in New York, I was like drip coffee and I loved it.

I found that their thick cold drip amazing. Much like cold brew it’s very low fire, and now I notice its popularity in New Zealand. People are shying away from the milky based drinks and moving into just black either filters or drip or cold brew.

Brendan: Right, and you said flat white was a buzz word, obviously cold brew is a buzz word now do you think, and this is just kind of a question for you to speculate, on. Do you think cold brew is a fad as nitro coffee? Do you think that’s a fad or do you think that is here to stay?

Crocky: I sometimes question why people want a hot milky drink on a hot day, and I think that it’s just sometimes we are stuck, maybe in New Zealand this is a thing that we do, we are stuck in this way of always wanting a flat white, and then once you introduce them to something like a cold brew, which is called iced coffee, that low acidity and they are like,” Interesting.”

Then you throw in the fact of making it nitro and it pours like a beer, plus that beautiful cascading nano-bubbles and all that, and then I think they get quite excited about it.

Andy: Like it happened with beer, that’s what we were talking about before, there was two breweries in New Zealand, and no more than six, seven years ago people started getting into craft beer so Kiwis can be swayed I think.

Crocky: Absolutely.

Andy: Craft beer has become the norm for a lot of people now.

Crocky: People thought that craft beer is here to stay, and I like to think that also cold brew. Of course it is going to grow and develop and there’s going to be new techniques. At this stage there’s not many people will cold brew or nitro at this moment.

Brendan: Yes, it is in its infancy for sure. It’s been around for ages but it’s finally starting to become popular in areas, and I think it’s definitely got a long way to go.

Crocky: Especially here in the southern hemisphere. Even in Australia for example Melbourne massive coffee culture. They were sort of third wave when we were stuck in still stuck in second wave. But were always cold drip, and even over there like I’ll be serving at the market, and I would serve some Australians and they wouldn’t know what it is.

I would scratch my head and think, “But it’s so hot over there, why would no one be doing nitro?” There is a few people, a few companies in Australia now doing that, and I think it will really take off over there. I think Brendan temperature is a big factor.

Sometimes New Zealand especially Wellington the summers they’re not like the Northern hemisphere. They’re not like an America hot summer. They’re a bit windy and cold, and cold mornings and all these factors kind of sway in on sales [laughs] basically [laughs]. And tastes too, global warming I don’t know.

[Laughter]

Crocky: We had a really great summer last summer, and I think this summer is going to be also another cracker.

Brendan: Yes, temperature obviously has a lot to do with serving cold brew, but I have cold brew on tap at my house, and cold mornings I’ll put in a cup and pour boiling water over it to heat it up. I prefer that over a hot drip coffee.

If I had my rathers I would have a hot coffee that way most of the time. So I definitely think if you guys got some cold mornings there I think you guys could still be selling cold brew.

Andy: Yes, totally. I think there’s China coffee shops in Wellington, Mojo coffee, China Mojo coffee. And they are in the nitrate game as well just sort of deck lick at one of its stores. It was the barista there – Do you remember his name Crocky?

Crocky: Ethan?

Andy: Anyway, Ethan. Shout out to Ethan. He was saying people drank beer all year round, why not cold coffee? If people drink cold beer in winter why not cold brew? Fair enough.

Brendan: Why not? Yes, good question. So in bringing and getting cold brew going there, you guys have obviously seen a bit of a market, what’s kind of been your biggest challenge I guess or the hurdles to introduce cold brew to a market that really hasn’t seen it?

Crocky: Yes, Sure. Like I was saying Brendan, temperature was a big factor. And people, maybe Kiwis stuck in their ways a little bit. I know from selling it down south, the farmer’s market when I just had it in bottles and selling cold brew to guys as well just from a D-Canter.

People weren’t really convinced, and that’s when I sort of thought, they liked the bottles, they liked the branding, and they liked the idea that a 500ml bottle of concentrated, one litre of coffee, but they weren’t buying takeaway coffees. I think that’s what really turned me on to nitro because of basically the theatre of pouring it.

So I think convincing people to even try it, and getting out of their own their own ways is probably one hurdle. What other hurdles was there? Another hurdle I found when I was bottling it was how to keep it for longer than two weeks, because I think people see it they say, “Oh, it’s only good for two weeks.”

So, that was a hurdle that I came across too, which I guess comes into things like sterilization, and how nitro sealing it, they called it. It’s just basically purging of nitrogen gas. But I found out all these things later on, other hurdles when I was selling, and the kegerator was just basically moving this big old baste a fridge around in a van with just one person.

And then moving into the nitro, probably always the issue of always wanting that beautiful cascading to fit, and I know that mostly through your podcasts that you’ve talked about how to nitranate cold brew correctly. So that was always an issue, and it always broke my heart when I come to pour it and there’s no head or there’s no cascade. It’s just like, there’s no bueno.

Brendan: Yes, that can that can be elusive sometimes. It’s a not the easiest, much easier with CO2 involved.

Crocker: Absolutely. Yes, CO2 and this summer, definitely, you’ve been talking about Keg stars.

Brendan: Yes, those make a huge difference as well.

Crocky: I think it’s just vital, absolutely vital that — I’ve heard people going and having this, the Nitro at the beanery Mojo’s little cafe, and just being a little bit disappointed by there being no cascading, no frothy. And you’re trying to sell them creamy coffee with no cream in it.

If it just looks like coffee well what’s the point? And then I find that problem sometimes. Sometimes we have that issue with the tech room serving nitro beers and it really kills me when it’s not that beautiful cascade.

Brendan: Yes, that’s definitely one of the selling points in my opinion of a nitro coffee, being able to put a cup down in front of somebody and that they can just watch it dance and it has that nice rich head on top.

Andy: Watch it dance, l like that.

Crocky: I think Dennis used to call it the white horses didn’t it? Yes, I was just talking to someone about it the other day, they said they’re cascading a fit and they were Irish and they were like “The white horses, I quite like that.”

Brendan: Yes, it’s a beautiful thing to watch. So along, you guys, you’re serving mobily, you’ve been serving out of a kegerator, but your goal is to serve from a trike, correct?

Crocky: Totally, yes, like Christiana bike to be exact.

Brendan: Christiana bike, unfamiliar term for me-

Crocky: Yes, so the Christiana, it is in Copenhagen I believe, so yes it is a trike bike but it’s—

Andy: Two wheels. It’s a cargo bike with two wheels at the front [inaudible 00:36:48] truck sitting above a simple wheel. And then the two front wheels to support the cargo section on the power part at the front.

Brendan: Got it.

Crocky: I guess there’s a few trike parts, but I guess what’s important is with the Christiana bikes is all about the quality. There’s a guy here, shout-out high school junction and Wellington. Dan is importing these Christiana bikes into New Zealand directly from Copenhagen. The idea is nitro meets mobile and that’s where we’re at right now.

Brendan: And you guys are having a bike custom-built for your crew right now?

Andy: That’s right. Yes, so another shout-out to Proffer. We’ve teamed up with these guys, so they are amazing. They’re industrial designers and builders, so they’re going to be building the casing for the bike that’s going to house the kegs and the draft tower.

We know, we’ve seen it worked. If we had done lots of retail spaces, they were all the best restaurants and cafes in Wellington. So their work, it was pretty impeccable so really happy to go with them. [Coughs] Excuse me. We caught up with George last night. George is the designer, and he said he started cutting out the panels which was pretty awesome. So yes, it’s a work in progress and we’re really excited about it.

Brendan: Yes, I bet. So two of you one bike, so who’s doing the pedalling?

[Laughter]

Andy: I think it will be Crocky, he biked over here. I drive around in a yellow Honda jazz, and Crocky’s got a really cool fixed gear bike, not as coolest thing, so I think you could the pushing there.

Crocky: Basically at the moment we are just working out storage for the bike, and just logistics. The ideas we’re working with Wellington Council on a roaming license to sell, and then also returning back to the Wellington Harbour Side Market to sell, and then also a lot of things as well.

Brendan: Alright. When you guys are serving on tap, is it just going to be a single nitro faucet? Will you offer cold brew?

Crocky: Well, I thought about this. I just think the single at the moment. I did like when I was over there in the States seeing along with doing the dropped latte. I was there when they just dropped that brew, but I think the logistics of working with milk and kegs, and sanitization might be too tricky. But again, it might be something that Kiwis might really go for, but at the same time I also think I’m trying to sell a drink that’s creamy without the cream so-

Brendan: You could turn the flat white into a bubble white.

Crocky: Hey man I think I did it. The world’s first draft flat white was the plan. At this stage it’s just 1 tap, one regulator, also would have to switch up two regulators.

Brendan: Right.

Crocky: I think that if someone wants, I see people do flat cold brew, and then nitro on another tap and I’ve always thought why just have nitro?

Brendan: We’ve seen that a lot of the shops that we work with, at least the brick and mortars, they prefer both because black cold brew on tap makes it easier to make iced coffees and other drinks. It saves a ton of time.

Crocky: Absolutely. I noticed that working out at those places in New York. And I was trying to push it at that stage, really trying to get them to get a nitrate system in. It didn’t always involve kegerators or install drilling through. You do it with certain types of taps inside there.

Brendan: Yes. Absolutely. We’re starting to see people put multiple cold brews on tap, and/or multiple nitro coffees on tap. Just different roasts or different blends, so it’s interesting where it’s going. What’s going to be the capacity of your bike in terms of litres or gallons once you’ve got it loaded up?

Crocky: It’s 100 litres, 100 kilograms large, max I think. You’ve got those corny takes about 22 was filling it up to about 18 [inaudible 0:41:56]. I think maybe just always having two on the bike, and then maybe a couple of chilling in a kegerator somewhere else. But I think you’d be pretty happy if you sold a couple kegs in one day.

Brendan: Yes, definitely.

Speaker 2: I’d be happy with that.

Brendan: Right on. Well, of guys that’s been fun, I don’t have too many more questions unless you guys want to talk about something else?

Andy: Anymore shootouts? [Laughter]. I’ve got a shout out. Shout out to the cold brewed bike in Vancouver. I had a hand up for a bit of info a little while back so if he’s listening shout out to you man.

Crocky: And shout out so if you’re the other Kiwi cold brew, half end cold brew doing good things, and People’s Coffee as well there on that cold brew game.

Andy: I think New Zealand has good camaraderie. Like we like to, especially around brewing as well. People like to share ideas and—

Crocky: Collaborations.

Andy: –yes. Got to keep your friends, frenemies plus.

Brendan: It’s really the only way to move something new forward in my opinion. I’ve talked about it in previous podcasts, how the micro, the craft brew industry is just being very open and willing to share information. And I see that with a lot of the companies we work with that are cold brewing. It’s cool to see and it’s definitely cool to be a part of.

Crocky: Actually one thing before we disperse, I guess right now also another challenge is the actual brewing of cold brew. We have to import the 20 filters from Australia who imports them from America. Right now we loving your cold brew system that I’m yet to find anything like this using the stainless steel—

Brendan: The ether meters.

Crocky: –yes the ether meters and niche basket.

Brendan: That can be completely re-usable.

Crocky: Yes, absolutely. You’re hygienic and sanitized and I think that’s something we are open to now.

Brendan: Yes, I appreciate you giving us a shout out too.

Crocky: Shout out to Cold Brew Avenue; shout out to Drips and Draughts.

Brendan: Here we go. Well, that’s a good note to end on guys. I appreciate you guys being on the show and–

Crocky: We love your podcast and the fact that you’re doing something so niche is fantastic, right down to that PDF that you put out 24 months ago. It’s fantastic so thank you.

Brendan: We actually– it’s the new one.

Crocky: Oh really?

Brendan: Yes. I have to send you guys a link to that.

Crocky: Excellent.

Andy: I was just- Brendan sorry, just shout out to your newborn baby, all the best for that.

Brendan: Thank you, thank you, yes, we’ll see you before–

Andy: Shout out to your wife.

Brendan: We’ll see if he’s here before this episode launches and I’ll have to change the intro outro.

Andy: I see the end of that.

Brendan: But, hey guys, I’ll plan on following up with you guys in five or six months, and maybe we can talk once you guys are rolling with the trike, and see how that’s all going for you in the summer.

Crocky: Awesome.

Crocky: Alright Crocky, Andy nice talking with you and we’ll chat soon.

Andy: Thanks Brendan.

Crocky: Thank You Brendan.

Brendan: Take care.

Andy: Oh yeah.

[Music]

Brendan: Real fun episode there with those New Zealanders. Definitely going to have to have Crocky and David back on in the summer– Well, in their summer once they get their cold brew trike rolling. And as promised a second shout out to their bean supplier Emporio Coffee.

That will about do it for today. As mentioned earlier, if you’ve ever got any questions call us and leave us a voice mail. We’ll play it on the air and we’ll try to answer it as best as we can. Phone number is 888-620-2739 Extension 6. That’s about it from me today, if you’re looking for show notes from this episode, you can find those at dripsanddraughts.com/20.

Thanks to Crocky and David for joining me today, I’m Brendan Hanson and you’ve been listening to The Drips and Draughts Podcast. Hope to see you again next Friday.

[Music]

Brendan: Are you looking to learn about cold brew and draught coffee? Join in the Cold Brew Avenue private community to connect with and learn from either cold brew and draught coffee professionals, plus get access to exclusive content, such as e-books, how-to videos, wires guides and more. You can learn more and apply for membership at forum.coldbrewavenue.com.

Thanks to Keg Outlet for sponsoring this podcast. Thank you to everyone who has contributed questions, and to you for tuning in. Thank you for listening. That does it for this week. We’re looking forward to seeing you again for the next episode of Drips and Draughts.